interview
Deepak Lal on the State of Liberty in India
2016
Summary
Deepak Lal calls the 1991 reforms crucial for dismantling much of the industrial-licensing, tariff, and delegated-planning apparatus and opening large space for private initiative, making business far easier than in the 1980s. But he argues the reforms were never carried through: bank nationalisation and the public-sector undertakings remain, and he criticises the government for not privatising loss-making Navratna enterprises, Air India, hotels, and steel mills, urging that their sale fund infrastructure such as roads and irrigation. He notes Modi's rhetoric that government has no business being in business, while faulting the gap with practice.
On liberty more broadly, he attacks coercive legislation, recalling how the Foreign Exchange Regulation Act was used during the Emergency to jail people for holding a few dollars, and warning that the new 'black money law' will become a huge avenue for corruption and harassment by Indian Revenue Service officers. He argues personal liberty is not valued by Indian governments, citing censorship, 19th-century laws, the beef ban, threatened alcohol prohibition, and the criminalisation of homosexuality. Invoking Mill's essay On Liberty, he contrasts India with Ireland's recent legalisation of gay marriage despite a powerful Catholic Church, while crediting Modi with resisting some Hindu-first pressures.
Key points
- The 1991 reforms were crucial, removing much industrial licensing, tariffs, and delegated planning and opening space for private initiative.
- The reforms were never followed through: bank nationalisation and the public-sector undertakings persist.
- Lal urges privatising loss-making Navratna firms, Air India, hotels, and steel mills to fund infrastructure.
- He cites Modi's line that 'government's business, not business' while noting the gap with practice.
- He recalls the Foreign Exchange Regulation Act being used during the Emergency to jail people for holding foreign currency.
- He warns the new 'black money law' will become a major avenue for corruption and harassment by revenue officials.
- He argues Indian governments do not value personal liberty, citing censorship and archaic 19th-century laws.
- He condemns the beef ban, likely alcohol prohibition, and the imprisonment of people for their sexuality, invoking Mill's On Liberty.
Transcript
Deepak Lal on the State of Liberty in India
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpEgEIBlkUI Duration: 217.7s
Speaker 1 (00:00): I think the 1991 reforms were crucial because they actually opened up, you know, got rid of the Delhi, extreme delegating industrial planning, tariffs, they cleaned all that. The one thing, those reforms are very crucial because they’ve opened up a large amount of space for private initiative, private individuals. And that I think has meant that it is much, much easier to do business now than it was, let’s say, even in the 80s. There was some
Speaker 2 (00:38): liberalisation, there’s still not enough. So there’s no, there’s going to be a sea change.
Speaker 1 (00:43): But the trouble is, those reforms have not really been followed out. On the financial markets, there are a fair amount. But we’ve still got this bank nationalisation, all the PSU’s, they’re still there. And why have we got all these, Modi keeps saying, government’s business, not business. Why is it privatizing all this Navaratna, this Ratna, that they have a huge amount. They say they’re short of money for infrastructure. You sell these and convert it into roads, irrigation ditches, whatever you want. There’s no point having this. They won’t even privatize air India. Loss making, why should they be, the government, they’re running an airline. Hotels, steel mills, all this is, there’s no business being here. We have now just introduced FIRA,
Speaker 2 (01:27): Foreign Exchange Regulation Act, which is Mrs. Gandhi’s way of getting its enemies. All
Speaker 1 (01:34): you had to do was raid anyone in Sound. You’ve been abroad and you still had a few dollars left in the university. FIRA to have court you with dollars, you were shoved in jail during the emergency. And they’ve now introduced this, it’s called black money law. And I say All this has done is it has raised the diaries which new members of the Indian Revenue Service will now ask for. It is now a huge, huge avenue for corruption. In the old days, if people didn’t go to jail, they didn’t send you to jail. So it’s a liberty. Yeah, so I’m not sure that liberty, economic liberty hopefully will come if he, the Modi Agri pursues, Agri fulfils his promises.
Speaker 2 (02:19): But personal liberty, I think, is still on its front in this country.
Speaker 1 (02:23): And I think, oh, if you read Mills’ essay on liberty, there are many things which you’ll be absolutely appalled at, by what’s going to happen in this country.
Speaker 2 (02:33): Well, this is one, then there’s censorship of various sorts.
Speaker 1 (02:36): You’ve got, you know, laws where they’re still stuck in 19th century laws about all sorts of things. And personal liberty is not something which, you know, the governments in this country actually value. They want to shut people up and control them the best way they can. And, you know, it’s usually a serious hysteria, but it’s actually a personal thing. And I think the Bodhi has been pretty good at not actually giving in to some of this Hindu first half. But panning beef, what is this? I mean, out of the blue. I’m very soon, alcohol will be banned. I’m very soon. So we’re going back. backwards in this way. And gays, I mean, it’s absurd. There’s no country in the world where people, because of their sexual persons, have been locked in jail, where you can go to prison. Even the Catholic, the Catholic Church in Ireland is very powerful, and the Irish just Resulted a gay marriage. It’s a long way to go.
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